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Upcoming Year in Frames: 2013 Kagero vs. 2013 Super Pista vs. 2013 Mash vs. Fuji

Hey everyone,

This coming year looks like a big year for frames (I've only been paying attention for the last 3 years), with all these new and cool frames:
2013 Kagero
2013 Bianchi SP
2013 Mash (rumors only)
2013 Fuji Track (homage to 2009)

What are your guys' thoughts on each of these? I'm being pulled in all directions with all these frames. I also would like this thread to stick to alu-carbon sub $1.5k just as a limit to our discussions because without a limit, this would go on forever and be totally diluted.

Feel free to add any other new frames that caught your eye; I've only listed some of the big players for brevity.

For starters, the Bianchi SP in black on celeste (homage to the pista concept) looks sick. I've always wanted a pista concept because of that livery and now it's back. Thing is, I never realized how oversized and oddly shaped that downtube. Nor have I noticed how in-your-face and huge the Bianchi is on the downtube - seems uber-brandy and tarck now.

Im interested in the 2013 Kageros new geo changes and colorways, but I wonder if the if this will change leader's reputation. Somehow theres always a hater for kageros and I'm wondering if this will shut them all up or bring more out.

As for the FTP, oh man...Who didn't love the 2009 black/red/white racey aggressive frame? Now that its back, for a sweet deal - how's it compete with the other frames coming out? I've heard the 2012 and 2009 were really aggressive, uncomfortably stiff, and relatively heavy.

As for the 2013 Mash, I really hope these rumors aren't true. http://hamcycles.com/post/32279671424/2...
It really seems like these rumors aren't true - because these changes make it just like the vigo! The whole point of the mash was to be a mean street riding machine 'fuck uci' in that perspective almost. But at the same time, pics of Chas' bikes at red crit show an unmarked cinelli that has a flat top tube and looks just like a vigo. I thought Cinelli had a nice direction with their Mash line, and it's proved so successful by judging how many damn mashes there are on here - no matter what the haters say.

Finally, the greatest mystery of them all - only a handful of them on pedalroom so far, but Dosnoventa (290 in spanish) is coming out with some ridiculous, industry-changing frames! Jesus, I love the integrated seatpost on the houston ,and the weight of their frames is ridiculous. The dosnoventa Tokyo is absolutely gorgeous, almost like the Pagani of bikes. But at the same time though, their geo seems pretty lax (long wb, sharp hta) - everyone who ive talked to about the frame says it rides great, but haven't had many other track frames to compare it to. Dosnoventa is also pretty pricey for what you get.

One other random note, I've noticed that integrated seatposts are becoming more trendy now - could that be the next frame "distinguisher" after the pursuit top tube?
November 12, 2012 06:23 AM
From: West Lafayette, IN
74 posts
2 bikes
Yeah I agree on the sp, its too flashy. The concept was way nicer too bad you can't find those that often.
The mash looks weird not being pursuit due to the smaller tubing as a track frame.
If I knew about the new Kagero before I got mine I would've waited. I love my Kagero and just because leader had a bad year with the 725 in 10' with the geo doesn't mean they haven't fixed it. The new 725s are nice and the frame is responsive. A bad year shouldn't determine the rest of their manufacturing Future.
Ftp never caught my attention.
I say Super pista Because it makes me feel I own a major part of fixed gear culture or Kagero in that blue color.due to the yellow decals it look slick.
I'll most likely build up a super pista black next year before college.
November 12, 2012 06:52 AM
From: San Fernando, Ca
89 posts
3 bikes
If the Mash rumors are true, I would actually consider getting one (if they actually made one bigger than a 58).
November 12, 2012 07:31 AM
i cant find the new bianchi anywhere. some one have a link
November 12, 2012 07:46 AM
8 posts
0 bikes
It actually is very possible that it's true.

This is because my cousin was the ONLY frame engineer for Cinelli from 2007 - Beginning of 2012, and the last frame he designed for Cinelli was the new SSCX. This meaning that he designed all of their frames and most of their products (all Mash products and many Cinelli products) that came out within that span of time. Now that he's quit Cinelli and now works for 3T, they've got new frame engineers, so I wouldn't be surprised if they came out with a new design for not only the Mash, but most of their line as well. Believe it or not, Cinelli is a struggling bike company, so redesigning and refreshing to get more sales is very probable.

EDIT: Turns out those rumors about the Mash are in fact TRUE! My cousin just told me that they wanted more of a road geo on the frames which imo is AWESOME!!! It might not have the same success as the older frames, but those frames were what built the foreground for Mash and this is just an evolution in the brand itself.
November 12, 2012 08:28 AM
From: CA, Irvine (previously SJ)
429 posts
8 bikes
I like the new prototype Cinelli's. Got sick of looking at everything with a "pursuit" like top tube. It makes sense to do that. Mostly everyone who has a "pursuit" like geo usually put a positive stem on it either with rises are road bars. So why not just get a bike with a square top tube. I would consider getting the new Cinelli depending on the paint scheme. I do love the Dosnoventa's. While they were here I was lucky enough to ride each one. It's great! There's absolutely no toe over lap and the Carbon Tokyo version is FUCKING STRONG. All in all, I want the Mash SSCX.
November 12, 2012 03:49 PM
From: Clinton Hills, Brooklyn
223 posts
23 bikes
wow, the mash concept is nice. I would love to have a frame like that one. very nice design. smart move cinelli!
November 12, 2012 05:43 PM
From: San Francisco, CA
48 posts
4 bikes
That blog you posted about the MASH rumors actually got it from me when I posted that stuff on bikeforums, ahahahah.

November 12, 2012 06:31 PM
From: San Francisco
62 posts
16 bikes
@jhunting, http://www.citygrounds.com/blog/?tag=20...
I think they look damn good
November 12, 2012 06:32 PM
From: Los Angeles, CA
212 posts
1 bike
I think I found my next street frame...Super Pista. Nice post guys.
November 12, 2012 09:03 PM
From: San Francisco, CA
360 posts
4 bikes
I really do think that DSNV is going to be the next big frame line after the new mash. The only problem is that you've got to pay quite the pretty penny, and dsnv isn't a massive company like cinelli is. Those factors would hold them back, but my god i think that they have the nicest looking stuff out there atm.
November 12, 2012 10:07 PM
From: CA, Irvine (previously SJ)
429 posts
8 bikes
One thing to know is the Kagero is just branded by Leader. All design is PC and the factory we have produces some of most high-end branded bikes. Also, right after the first Kagero was released, we began working on a Pista version of the Kagero... perfectly leveled TT (standard sizes) and velodrome ready. I've been testing the prototype dubbed the RENOVATIO and its amazing. Coming June 2013.
November 12, 2012 10:09 PM
From: Portland,OR
142 posts
5 bikes
Gray/pink vigorelli will be dope
November 12, 2012 10:37 PM
Wow! Need to wait for the Pista version of the Kagero.
November 12, 2012 11:07 PM

Thanks for letting me know! And sorry for not crediting you sooner.I always hate citing without sources.

@Cinelli Posts:

Just out of curiosity, how come so many of you like the more "tame" version of the Mash? If you wanted a UCI legal track machine, there are far better options out there, including the vigorelli. Imo, the Mash needs to be for those mashers on the street - aggressive and over the top. It's not meant for the track, nor should it be - Cinelli has the Vigo for that.

For those who contest test they'll sell more under these new rumors, how can you say that? Cinelli is always overpriced, and that geo is a staple in the track market. And the mash histogram and bolt were both insanely popular; I think they still continue to be super popular (you see a new one every few days or so up here). They might be the most common bikes up on this site. Doesn't that prove that the Mash was something the fixed community liked?
I think the hate started because people believed it diluted the core of the fixed community.
I understand that there are many poor mash builds out there, but that is because it has drawn in such a large crowd to the fixed community, and when there's a larger population, there's a larger deviation for build design (for better or for worse).

As for the DSNV talk, I am still skeptical of their ride until I try one myself. I really like tight geometry on my bike (toe over lap, sub-960's wb, 73-75 range of hta and sta or more etc.) and the fact that it doesn't have toe overlap tells me the rear end doesn't quite pick up like tighter frames out there. The 75 deg hta just tells me the front's wobbly as hell. The rear is as dead as a door. This geometry is just like a Visp in the sense that it has a high Hta and "long" wb. My friend has a visp and it's dead as hell in the rear but unstable like crazy up front (74.5 hta, 45 rake, 960's wb, no toe overlap on 160mm cranks).

No offense is meant to DSNV or those who have their frames, I just cannot understand unless someone compares the ride of one to another known frame (bolt, histo, dodici, blue tr250, fuji track, bianch sp etc.)


I'm so looking forward to the renovatio. Any more info you can provied on it?

I love the new kagero's blue w/ yellow. I think everyone else does too. the colorway and geo changes have changed my perspective and I really want one now (the gunmetal was a little too dull for me). I believe the new kagero's going to sell well. And I think I've decided to get one myself.

Anyone catch other frames out there that might be worth keeping your eye on?
November 13, 2012 01:10 AM
From: West Lafayette, IN
74 posts
2 bikes
Now that I look at the Dosnoventa frames more, I totally agree with you. They look nice, but that head tube angle kills it for me. Really not sure how that'd feel with a tight rear clearance and a not-so-tight front clearance. I'd imagine it's close to how you described it.
November 13, 2012 09:15 AM
From: Los Angeles, CA
212 posts
1 bike
Although Pelizzoli isn't mass produced or too popular, I'd really like to see more of their frames floating around in the near future. I think they're a lot nicer than LOW and the wait isn't as long. Thought I'd say that.
November 13, 2012 09:27 AM
From: Los Angeles, CA
212 posts
1 bike
still not a big fan of the Bianchi Super Pista's aero seat tube for conventional posts. why didn't they go the route of the T1 Cervelo? If they just kept the 04/05/06 Concept design I think i'd buy another one. I love my 05
November 13, 2012 12:24 PM
From: Ottawa, ON Canada
816 posts
22 bikes

ah that's an interesting point about the tight rear wheel. I believe that would alleviate some of the sluggishness for sure.


I agree. I think the new super pista gets less and less attractive the more I look at it. Color scheme is nice, but the down tube decal is weird and looks too big. Plus the tube set now looks like a mega widebodykit off some need for speed underground supra mk4 haha (of course an exaggeration, but you get my point). I think its becoming more and more a fixed gear and less and less velo material. Of course the geo still makes it a velo machine all the way just the appearances look a little over the top.
November 13, 2012 05:22 PM
From: West Lafayette, IN
74 posts
2 bikes
I guess it just comes down to preference for some people because it's still going to perform well.

November 13, 2012 06:19 PM
From: Los Angeles, CA
212 posts
1 bike
Can any one tell me what is the difference is between the 2013 kagero and the past model of kagero, does the 2013 have more pursuit?
March 2, 2013 09:34 AM
Can any one tell me what is the difference is between the 2013 kagero and the past model of kagero, does the 2013 have more pursuit?
March 2, 2013 09:37 AM
March 2, 2013 11:29 PM
From: West Lafayette, IN
74 posts
2 bikes
March 3, 2013 07:05 AM
21 posts
0 bikes

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